Agenda and minutes

The Chair introduced Sarah Benioff, Director for Integration and Community Rights and Fire, Resilience and Emergencies at DCLG, and her colleague Brian Nash from the National Fire Policy Division at DCLG.

The Director thanked members for welcoming her to the Fire Commission and for the warm welcome she has received since her appointment. The Director commented that since taking up her post she has been impressed by the commitment of the fire family to the service and also the outcomes the fire service has produced over many years. She explained that her role encompasses integration and community rights as well as the work on fire, resilience and emergencies that was previously carried out by Neil O’Connor.

The Director encouraged members to respond to the current consultation on Enabling closer working between the Emergency Services. She commented that a number of members of the Commission had attended an engagement event on this topic held by DCLG.

The government has put £70 million into blue light collaboration. Elected Police and Crime Commissioners (PCCs) have shown the benefit of bringing some services together and making savings through use of shared buildings and back office functions. Post-election Home Office, Department of Health and DCLG are working to bring together more of the emergency services. The Knight Review found that collaboration is happening but it is patchy.

The powers proposed are not intended to be mandatory but meant to be enabling and that is the emphasis of the consultation. Ministers are clear that the emergency services should be accountable to local communities with local people having a say over how the services are run. PCCs have clear local accountability and a strong incentive to pursue ambitious reform to improve local services and deliver value for money in the interests of local people

The consultation aims to find what is happening across the country. It is meant to be enabling and about removing barriers which are preventing collaboration. The government is not mandating the transfer of services to PCCs except where local people want it and there is a local case based on strong local economies, efficiency and public safety. The Director reassured the Commission that the powers of police and firefighters will not be mixed and firefighters will not be expected to act as police or be given police powers.

The Spending Review and its launch document stress growth and productivity, particularly local growth, radical devolution and the integration of public services. As in 2010, as directed by the Treasury and along with other government departments, the DCLG submission set out modelling based on 20% reductions and 40% reductions by 2019/20. The Treasury and Ministers are discussing the submissions along with those from other individual organisations. The LGA submission is being considered.

The Director welcomed the LGA and CFOA strategic connections with health as important sustainable partners.

In the discussion which followed the Director’s talk the following topics were raised:

·         The Adrian Thomas review was still yet to be published. Members asked when the review  ...  view the full minutes text for item 1.

John Wright, Senior Advisor, introduced the paper and draft response to the consultation. He outlined the key themes of the response:

·         Support for collaboration between blue light services.

·         Legislating a duty to collaborate could stifle innovation.

·         Collaboration is best left at the local level.

·         Governance changes are unnecessary.

·         The consultation ignores the potential complexities associated with PCCs involvement in the governance of county FRAs

·         Changes must have the support of local people and the government should not be able to overrule local decisions.

Members welcomed the draft response. There was a discussion during which members made a number of comments:

·         The clause about PCCs making a hostile takeover of fire authorities should be removed from the proposals.

·         The response is representative of the national picture and should not be framed in a way that makes it appear that all areas face some difficulties collaborating with the ambulance service. Most areas enjoy good collaborative relationships with their local ambulance trust.

·         Integration with the local community is a fire service strength which other blue light services do not have.

·         There should be clarity around who pays for the putting together of a business case.

·         The fire service is good at collaborating with other services.

·         The consultation only considers PCCs taking over FRAs and not vice versa.

·         The strength of the fire brand allows the service to reach into places other emergency services cannot.

·         Members disagreed that PCCs are more democratically representative than FRAs. They also felt that, because Police and Crime panels have no power over what a PCC does, local democratic control of the FRS would be lost in any transfer of governance.

·         The fire service’s strength lies in community wellbeing.

·         Any move towards establishing a single employer must be supported by both workforces before such a change takes place.

·         Some of the strengths of the current system, peer challenge, and organisational experience could be lost if FRSs merged with police under the governance of the PCC.

·         The consultation doesn’t address the savings that can be made from preventative work. The current health and wellbeing work undertaken by the FRS saves other services money.

Decision

·         Members were unanimous that the proposed legislation was not required.

·         Members agreed to forward individual fire authority responses to the consultation to the LGA.

Action

·         Officers to make amendments to the draft response as per members’ comments.

·         Officers to collate fire authority responses to the consultation on receipt

·         Officers to forward the final LGA response to members of the Fire Commission.

Decision

Members noted the priorities for 2015/16 agreed by the Fire Services Management Committee.

The Chair introduced the discussion paper, which sets out the current context for fire and rescue authorities, and poses a number of questions on the future of the service.

There was a short discussion during which members made a number of comments:

·         The role of the FRS is being reshaped but we should not forget the core business of a firefighter and the importance of resilience.

·         As the role expands to cover the wider prevention agenda fire fighters could become National Safety Officers working with both health and the police.

·         Budget constraints mean authorities cannot afford more specialist officers, every officer must have the full range of skills. Authorities would benefit from more flexibility from national negotiating of terms and conditions.

Action

Officers to consult with members for their responses on the fire fighter for the 21^st century

Decision

Members noted the Spending Review submission and its recommendations.

Action

Officers to progress as appropriate.

Simon Pannell, LGA Negotiations, introduced the paper which informed the Fire Commission on the main industrial relations and pension issues at present.

Decision

Members noted the report.                         

Action

Officers to progress as appropriate.

Decision

Members noted the report.                         

Action

Officers to progress as appropriate.

Members agreed the minutes of the previous meeting held on 26 June 2015.