LGA Governance


Agenda and minutes

Agenda and minutes

Venue: Westminster Suite, 8th Floor, Local Government House, Smith Square, London, SW1P 3HZ

Contact: Jonathan Bryant  Email: Jonathan.Bryant@local.gov.uk - 07464652746

Items
No. Item

1.

Welcome, apologies and declarations of interest

Minutes:

The Chair welcomed members to the meeting.

 

Apologies were received from Cllrs Carolyn Lambert and Frank Biederman. Cllr Roger Price was substituting for Cllr Lambert.

 

There were no declarations of interest.

 

2.

Confidential minutes of the previous meeting held on 21 May 2021

Minutes:

The confidential minutes of the meeting held on 21 May 2021 were agreed as an accurate record.

 

3.

Home Office Personal Emergency Evacuation Plans (PEEPs) consultation

Minutes:

The Chair invited Charles Loft, Senior Adviser, to introduce the report.

 

Charles outlined the proposed LGA response to the Home Office consultation on Personal Emergency Evacuation Plans (PEEPs) and explained that this had come about as a result of the recommendation from the Grenfell Tower Inquiry that a PEEP should be prepared by the Responsible Person for every resident in a high-rise residential building who self-identifies as unable to self-evacuate. In addition, this information should be kept up to date and placed in an information box on the premises to assist fire and rescue services in carrying out effective evacuations.

 

Charles then ran through the proposed LGA response to the consultation. This supported the proposal to introduce a legal requirement for PEEPs in buildings with simultaneous evacuation policies and recognised the value they could have in buildings with a Stay Put policy. However, there would undoubtedly be significant resource implications for councils which hadn’t been adequately considered by the Home Office. The LGA was supportive of discussions around making volunteer-based PEEPs work but the Government had to clarify whether any legal liability would fall upon the Responsible Person in the event of the failure of a volunteer-dependent evacuation plan. There were also issues around capacity, competence and assurance for councils which would have resource implications and would need to be addressed. A balance needed to be struck between councils’ distinct roles as landlord and regulator.

 

Mark Hardingham, NFCC Chair, added that the NFCC had been working closely with the LGA on the response and he agreed that more guidance was needed on how they could be made to work in practice. In particular, there were questions about the role of FRSs in assessing and monitoring PEEPs and the difference between an evacuation and a rescue situation. Geographical variation in resourcing of FRSs would also need to be taken into account.

 

Members comments and questions:

·         Support was expressed for the principles outlined in the response but there were concerns about its tone and strident language in places, particularly in its criticism of the Government. It was felt that this wouldn’t help the LGA moving forward. Could these sections be redrafted and circulated to Lead Members (and Lord Porter) for final sign off? Charles agreed to make these adjustments and said that he would recirculate the revised document to lead members of FSMC, EEHT and SSC Boards as well as the Grenfell Task & Finish Group. He advised members that Lord Porter had taken on a new role at MHCLG and was therefore, no longer the LGA Building Safety Spokesperson.

·         The response did not properly address the question of the responsibility for enforcing PEEPs to ensure they would comply with legal requirements. Could this be added in?

·         New and modern ways of occupying buildings, such as Air bnb, were creating significant issues for fire safety and how vulnerable people could be kept safe. Mark Hardingham agreed that this was an emerging trend in the built environment and said that the NFCC were  ...  view the full minutes text for item 3.

4.

Building Safety Bill pdf icon PDF 157 KB

Matthew Armer (Head of Building Safety Reform, Home Office) to attend.

Minutes:

The Chair invited Charles Loft, Senior Adviser, and Matthew Armer, Head of Building Safety Reform at the Home Office, to introduce the report.

 

Charles outlined the main provisions in the Bill, which had been published on 5 July 2021, and then highlighted some of the LGA’s initial general concerns. These included:

·         The Bill did not resolve the issue of costs to leaseholders of remediation work

·         Links with planning reform, in particular, concerns around building safety in buildings converted under permitted development rights

·         The proposals on product safety lacked detail and there were concerns about whether they would actually work in practice

·         Limited removal of private sector competition in building control

 

The report also addressed aspects of the Committee’s discussion at its last meeting about the fire at New Providence Wharf that had been covered by the LGA’s ongoing building safety work.

 

Matthew introduced himself to the Committee and explained his current role, namely leading on the Home Office input into the MHCLG sponsored Building Safety Bill. The main task at present was working to recruit the approximately 200 new fire protection staff that the Home Office estimate would be required to support the work of the new Building Safety Regulator (BSR). Given the 4-5 years of training required to become a fire engineer, it would not be possible to get all 200 in place by the time the new regime was scheduled to begin in April 2023. A high-level plan had been developed with the NFCC to recruit and train staff, largely through in-house upskilling and backfilling. Money had been secured through the Protection Uplift Grant to deliver new duties under the Fire Safety Order but a further bid for funding had been submitted to the Treasury.

 

Members comments and questions:

·         Members agreed that the shortage of qualified fire protection staff was a real concern and could be exacerbated by loss to the private sector where pay was generally higher.

·         Concern was expressed about the balance of FRA responsibility for the fire service and the duty to cooperate with HSE. Charles agreed that there needed to be greater detail and clarity on where the BSR made demands on FRAs that might be at odds with their IRMPs.

·         Members agreed with the LGA position that height was not necessarily the best determinant of risk but queried why it was suggested that only care homes under 18 metres should come into scope, rather than other at-risk settings? Too many new buildings were still being built with serious flaws. Matthew said that whilst height was the only risk indicator in the Bill at present, amendments could be made to the Bill as it passed through Parliament. The Bill itself also allowed for expansion in scope.

·         Concern was expressed about buildings converted into residential under Permitted Development Rights being able to bypass the new system, thus compromising building safety. Charles said that the LGA had raised this on a number of occasions with MHCLG and the Minister. His response, when this point  ...  view the full minutes text for item 4.

5.

End of year report and priorities for 2021-22 pdf icon PDF 173 KB

Minutes:

The Chair invited Lucy Ellender, Senior Adviser, to introduce the report.

 

Lucy outlined the activities that the LGA had carried out against the priorities FSMC had set in October 2020. Lucy invited comments on paragraph 24 of the report which set out some areas which could potentially be priorities for 2021-22 and explained that these would be fleshed out based on feedback at this meeting and the Fire Commission in October.

 

Members comments and questions:

·         Members broadly agreed with the proposed priorities but felt that, in reality, the Fire Reform White Paper was likely to take up a significant amount of the Committee’s time and resources and so a degree of realism would be needed.

 

Decision:

Members noted the work of FSMC over the last year and agreed the proposed priorities for 2021-22.

 

6.

Workforce update pdf icon PDF 294 KB

Minutes:

The Chair reported that this would be Clair Alcock’s last FSMC meeting as she was leaving to take up the position of Head of Police Pensions with the National Police Chiefs’ Council. Lead members thanked Clair for her work with the LGA and wished her all the best in her new role. The Chair then invited Clair to introduce the update.

 

Clair highlighted 2 issues:

1)    Risk and mitigation activity around the age discrimination remedy. Discussions were taking place with software suppliers and administrators in order to get some consistency nationally for FRAs, and associated funding. FRAs would receive updates as and when available.

2)    2 HM Treasury consultations had been published – (i) on the methodology for setting the discount rate used in scheme valuations. It sought views on the objectives for the Superannuation Contributions Adjusted for Past Experience (SCAPE) discount rate and the most appropriate methodology for setting the SCAPE discount rate going forward; (ii) on changes to the cost control mechanism. Implications for employers to be considered by Scheme Advisory Board (SAB) cost effectiveness committee (chaired by Cllr Roger Phillips) and then the full SAB.

 

Decision:

·         FSMC noted the update.

 

7.

National Fire Chiefs Council update pdf icon PDF 526 KB

Minutes:

Decision:

·         FSMC noted the update.

 

8.

Fire Standards Board update pdf icon PDF 432 KB

Minutes:

Decision:

·         FSMC noted the update.

 

9.

FSMC update pdf icon PDF 218 KB

Minutes:

The Chair invited Rachael Aldridge (Policy Adviser) to introduce the update.

 

Rachael reported that:

·         The Senior Stakeholder Group was currently holding meetings to finalise a sector submission to the Government Spending Review.

·         The governance task and finish group had held its first meeting to formulate a response to the Government’s fire reform agenda. The second meeting would be held later in July. The group would report back to the next meeting of FSMC.

·         Ahead of the Government’s expected White Paper, 3 Governance and Leadership workshops had been organised, which were open to all FRA members. Officers would shortly be e-mailing Fire Commission, FSMC and FRA Chairs with details.

·         A new Fire Leadership Essentials course was being held in September and new FRA members were encouraged to register to attend.

 

Decision:

·         FSMC noted the update.