Agenda and minutes

The Chair welcomed members to the meeting.

He paid tribute to former CFO of Warwickshire, Kieran Amos, who had sadly passed away recently after a short illness.

Apologies were received from Fiona Twycross, Cllr Greg Brackenridge, Cllr Nigel Smith and Jonny Bugg (Stephen Polly deputising).

There were no declarations of interest.

The minutes of the meeting held on 15 October 2021 were agreed as an accurate record.

Ben Brook, NFCC, to attend

The Chair invited Lucy Ellender (Senior Adviser) to introduce the report.

Lucy briefly highlighted the main areas of the LGA’s current work on climate change, including sector support and lobbying priorities, and spoke about the opportunities for further joint working.

Lucy introduced CFO Ben Brook, the NFCC joint lead on Environment, Sustainability and Climate Change, to talk about the work being carried out by NFCC in this area.

Ben said that climate change was one of the biggest challenges facing the sector over the coming years, both in terms of adapting ways of working and in responding to an increasing number of extreme weather-related incidents.

Ben said that the NFCC was in the early stages of putting together a toolkit for FRSs to help them adapt. Eight task and finish groups had been set up to look at various aspects of the challenge: (i) Overarching vision with a 2030 horizon; (ii) Literature review to understand the scale of risk; (iii) Assessing the quality of existing datasets; (iv) Developing a stakeholder map; (v) Analysis and tools to measure impacts and successes; (vi) Assessing the benefits of producing a toolkit vs. a full strategy; (vii) Conducting a gap analysis; (viii) Pulling it all together.

Ben stressed that the project was still in the very early stages but the NFCC was keen for FSMC to be involved as a key partner.

Members’ comments and questions:

·       Members were very supportive of the NFCC’s work in this area and felt that it would provide a much clearer picture of what FRSs needed to be doing.

·       The issue of river catchment flooding was raised and, in particular, how this crossed the borders with Wales and Scotland in some FRAs. It would therefore be important to involve the devolved administrations in this work in order to produce a joined-up response.

·       Would the LGA be updating its publication on climate change that was produced for the 2020 Fire Conference? Lucy said that officers would be refreshing the publication in due course with new case studies.

·       Would the NFCC be looking at European countries for examples of best practice? Ben said that the literature review work would pick up broader international learning.

The Chair thanked Ben for his presentation.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee noted the report and endorsed the work of the LGA and NFCC on climate change.

The Chair invited Rachael Aldridge (Policy Adviser) to introduce the report.

Rachael confirmed the arrangements for the Fire Conference in Gateshead on 15 and 16 March and said that the website was now open for registration. She ran through the proposed programme and added that Sir Tom Winsor had already confirmed attendance as a keynote speaker. The Minister, Lord Greenhalgh, had been invited but not yet confirmed attendance. It was proposed that the overarching theme of the conference would be ‘delivering transformation in the fire and rescue sector’. All conference resources would be provided in digital format for sustainability reasons.

The Chair added that the FSMC meeting would take place on 14 March at 4pm at the conference centre and he urged members to attend this in person if possible.

Members’ comments and questions:

·       Members asked what the fall-back position was if the Minister was unable to attend. Rachael said that there were several options and officers would come back to Lead Members if that eventuality arose. Stephen Polly agreed to chase the Minister’s office as a matter of urgency.

·       Would there be enough flexibility in the programme to have discussions on the Fire Reform White Paper if this were to be published before the conference? The Chair said that Lead Members would ensure that this would be possible.

·       Could the ESMCP be included somewhere in the programme as this was now becoming a pressing issue for FRAs? Rachael confirmed that this could be included.

Decision:

Subject to the above comments, Fire Service Management Committee approved the proposed theme and programme for the Annual LGA Fire Conference and Exhibition 2022.

The Chair invited Mark Norris (Principal Policy Adviser) to introduce the report.

Mark said that the updated Plan was being brought to members for information only as it had been formally adopted by the LGA Board in September 2021. The work of FSMC was covered at a broad level on page 29 of the Plan.

Members’ comments and questions:

·       The pie chart of the LGA’s expenditure showed that the organisation’s spend on sustainability and climate accounted for just 0.5% of overall expenditure. This seemed to be low given the priority now given to these areas of work. Was there a danger that people might think that the LGA wasn’t taking this issue as seriously as it should be? Mark said that this figure probably didn’t accurately reflect the amount of policy work currently being done by Boards across the LGA and agreed with members that this breadth of work should probably be presented more clearly in the Plan. He added that this figure on spend was likely to increase significantly in the coming years. He agreed to feed members’ comments back to senior officers.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee noted the 2020/21 update of the 3-year business plan as the broad basis for its work programme over the coming months.

Actions:

Officers to feedback members’ comments on the Plan to LGA senior officers. Mark Norris.

The Chair invited Mark Norris to introduce the update.

Mark highlighted the following points from the report:

·       Remediation of dangerous high-rise buildings continues, but at a slow pace.

·       The LGA was providing support for FRAs and councils as outlined in para. 11

·       Implementation of the Fire Safety Act and the Grenfell Tower Inquiry Phase 1 report recommendations had been delayed and was now unlikely to happen in April 2022 as previously stated by the Home Office.

·       The new Secretary of State at DLUHC, Michael Gove, was reviewing various aspects of the Government’s building safety policy and the signals were that there could be a shift, especially around costs to leaseholders. This may result in some amendments being brought forward by the Government to the Building Safety Bill when it returns at the Report stage.

Members’ comments and questions:

·       Concern was expressed about unfunded burdens being placed on FRAs and councils arising from the Building Safety Bill. Mark said that the LGA was lobbying strongly on this issue with the NFCC, and in particular, around the supply of skilled personnel to carry out the additional work.

·       It was suggested that the training currently offered to housing portfolio holders would also be beneficial for FRA members. Could this offer be extended to them? Mark said that content was being added to the Leadership Essentials courses on building safety but he would speak to Charles Loft to see whether anything further could be offered to FRA members.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee noted the update.

The Chair invited Gill Gittins (Senior Adviser, Workforce & Negotiations) and Claire Hey (Senior Fire Pensions Adviser) to introduce the update.

Gill and Claire stated they had nothing to add to the report but were happy to take members’ questions.

Members’ comments and questions:

·       An update on the immediate detriment withdrawal of Home Office guidance issue was requested. Gill reported that as set out in the Workforce report HM Treasury had issued a note setting out their assessment of the advisability of processing immediate detriment cases before new legislation to enact the McCloud remedy is put in place. The Home Office had withdrawn its guidance on processing immediate detriment cases and made a statement about potential funding of such cases. Gill said this did not entirely alter the position with regards funding as there had never been a guarantee that costs arising from the Sargeant judgment in general would be covered by government. The LGA would therefore continue on behalf of all FRAs to seek funding for all the costs arising out of the Sargeant claims, under New Burdens or otherwise. Officers were working with specialist QCs on the implications of the recent HMT note and would be providing information to FRAs as soon as possible.

·       Two members felt that FSMC had not been fully engaged or consulted when the Framework and Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with the FBU had been drawn up, and that it had therefore come as a surprise. Gill explained that development of the MoU and Framework had been entered into as sought by UK-wide FRAs to identify a mutually agreeable settlement of the High Court cases already actioned by the FBU involving London and Nottinghamshire and because they did not wish to be subject to High Court claims as well (as intended by the FBU), mindful of the cost and also that affected firefighters had already been awaiting action since the judgment in 2018. It was a legal negotiation and not an FSMC policy matter. The Framework then provided all FRAs with a route to avoid/settle such legal action if an FRA wished to do so. FSMC had been informed of this work in previous reports as had the person nominated by each service to receive information (given confidentiality and risk to legal privilege issues). It had been developed in conjunction with legal representatives and specialists, and in light of the direction of travel of the PSPJO Bill, discussion with government on its intentions. It had been approved by the Steering Committee specifically set up with the agreement of FRAs to handle such matters. It was recognised that risk could only ever be minimised, not removed completely and guidance issued to FRAs alongside the Framework had covered this. Work was now being undertaken with legal and pension specialists to consider this latest government position and a note would be issued to FRAs as soon as possible. Gill said that workforce and pension team officers would be happy to discuss further with the two members concerned outside  ...  view the full minutes text for item 7.

The Chair invited Justin Johnston (NFCC Vice-Chair) to introduce the update.

Justin highlighted the recent signing of the Royal Foundation Mental Health at Work Commitment by the NFCC and suggested that individual FRAs may also want to consider doing likewise.

Members’ comments and questions:

·       Why hadn’t the NFCC’s potentially controversial consultation on the ‘firefighter role’ been included in the update? Justin agreed that this was an important piece of work and there would be a wider strategic discussion on it once the results of the consultation had been examined.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee noted the update.

The Chair invited Cllr Nick Chard to introduce the update.

Cllr Chard highlighted the upcoming Peer Review of three new leadership standards, due to commence in December, and stressed the importance of members engaging in the process. Consultation was scheduled to commence in January 2022 depending on feedback received during the peer review phase.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee noted the update.

The Chair invited Rachael Aldridge to introduce the update.

Rachael reported that, since the paper had been circulated, next steps on the Fit for the Future process had been agreed. Officers were hoping to have an analysis report agreed by 7 February, following which, technical workshops would be held. The aim was to have an updated Fit for the Future document drafted by early March.

Cllr Chard reported that he had attended a JESIP meeting earlier in the week and they continued to do good work in improving collaboration between the emergency services. He would report back more fully at the next FSMC meeting.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee noted the update.

Presentation from Laura Gibb and Alexandra Blohm - HMICFRS

Members received a confidential presentation from HMICFRS on the draft State of Fire & Rescue 2021 report and the 13 individual service inspections carried out to date.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee noted the presentation.