Agenda and minutes

The new Chair introduced himself and welcomed members to the first meeting of the new LGA year and, in particular, the new members and substitutes on the Committee.

Apologies were received from Roger Hirst (substitute Cllr Dave Norman) and NFCC Chair, Mark Hardingham (Susannah Hancock substituting).

There were no declarations of interest.

The minutes of the meeting held on 22 July 2022 were agreed as an accurate record.

The Chair introduced the item and highlighted one change to the outside bodies Appendix D - Cllr Luke Frost would now be the Independent Group nomination for the Strategic Resilience Board.

Members’ comments and questions:

·       The issue of FRAs not paying travel expenses for members to attend FSMC and Fire Commission meetings in person was raised. Members considered that it was important for all members, regardless of political allegiance, to be able to get involved in networking and lobbying activity. The Chair said that he would raise the issue in a letter that he would shortly be sending out to FRA Chairs. Mark Norris (MN), Principal Policy Adviser, added that this issue was being discussed by the LGA political group offices and hopefully a resolution would be found.

·       Members considered that was important to have a vehicle for discussing issues around on-call firefighters.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee:

·       agreed its Terms of Reference;

·       formally noted the membership for 2022/23;

·       noted the future meeting dates for 2022/23;

·       agreed the Board’s nominations to outside bodies;

·       agreed the re-appointment of Fiona Twycross as FSMC Equalities Advocate.

Action:

Chair to raise payment of travel expenses in letter to FRA Chairs.

The Chair invited Lucy Ellender (LE), Senior Adviser, to introduce the report.

LE explained that following feedback at the July FSMC meeting, it was proposed to add ‘sector-led improvement’ and ‘climate change’ to ‘people, professionalism and governance’ as priorities for the year ahead. LE invited further comment and feedback from members on the proposed priorities.

Members’ comments and questions:

·       Members were generally happy with the priorities as presented but felt it was important not to overload the work programme. It was suggested that the priorities themselves could be prioritised, with for example, finance being the most urgent requirement.

·       It was suggested that FSMC needed to be on the front foot with the fire reform white paper proposals as there was a potential vacuum whilst the new minister got to grips with the issues. MN advised that Home Office civil servants were working on introducing aspects of the white paper proposals into possible legislation for a King’s Speech in Spring 2023 but it was still not clear whether the new Minister had actively engaged with this process at a political level.

·       Issues around climate change, such as increased flooding risk, were considered to be fundamental to FRAs over the coming years.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee agreed the priorities for the forthcoming year as set out in the report but that a flexible approach should be taken, dependent on circumstances.

Verbal update from Mark Hemming and CFO Ben Ansell, NFCC

The Chair invited CFO Ben Ansell (BA) and Mark Hemming (MH) from the National Fire Chiefs Council (NFCC), to update the Committee on current finance issues affecting the sector.

BA explained that pay was going to be a key issue moving forward, with every 1% increase for staff costing English Fire & Rescue Authorities (FRA) around £14m. The challenge for FRAs would be to build any increase into their base budgets. BA said it was vital that 4 key figures in the new Government – Home Secretary, Fire Minister, Chief Secretary to the Treasury and the Local Government Minister – were aware of the financial issues facing FRAs and efforts were ongoing to engage them. The importance of putting across a consistent message in lobbying was emphasised.

MH reported on the provisional results of two surveys recently carried out by the NFCC on reserves and non-pay inflation. Between March 2021 and 2022, reserves across English FRAs increased by around 5% but there was a great deal of variation between services. Non-pay inflation has been estimated to be around £41m for English FRAs but this was prior to the recent Government announcement of an energy cap for non-domestic customers. Work was currently taking place to estimate the impact of this cap, and the NFCC was having conversations with the Home Office on the potential impacts on staffing. 79% of services had rated both pay and non-pay inflation as a serious risk in their budget setting moving forward.

Members’ comments and questions:

·       It was considered important to keep up lobbying pressure on Government over inflationary costs, particularly as the energy price cap was for just 6 months.

·       Members agreed that a unified lobbying message was important albeit that county council services may have different requirements from precepting FRAs. It was suggested that individual CFOs pair up with their Chairs, or worked with near neighbours on specific local lobbying. BA agreed that this would be helpful but there needed to be clarity around exactly what was being asked for, especially on precept flexibility. It was agreed that LGA officers should work with the NFCC on a joint briefing for members to be able to use when lobbying.

·       Spending one-off reserves to support services or pay awards was not considered to be a viable and sustainable approach to budgeting for FRAs. Were there any ‘outlier’ FRAs who were accumulating unnecessary amounts of reserves which the Government was latching onto to draw wider conclusions? BA said that it was authorities who had high amounts of non-earmarked reserves that the Government was focussing on. MH confirmed that around 40% of reserves nationally were earmarked for capital projects, however, mainly due to a reduction in activity around Covid, reserves were increasing. It was expected that levels would start to decrease in the coming years.

·       It was stressed that any unfunded pay agreements would have to be paid for by cuts to staff and services and it was important for this point to continue to be made to Government.  ...  view the full minutes text for item 5.

Presentation from Assistant CFO Dan Quinn, Shropshire FRS

The Chair invited Assistant CFO of Shropshire FRS, Dan Quinn (DQ), to give his presentation.

DQ gave members a brief overview of the NFCC’s Economic and Social Value of the UK FRS project, which aims, for the first time, to put a monetary value to the services provided by fire and rescue services in the UK. This will help negotiations around funding nationally, and also at a local level to allow FRS’s to direct resources to the most beneficial activities. The final report was due to be officially launched at the NFCC Autumn Conference the following week. The initial report covered English FRS’s with a further phase 2 report covering the whole of the UK. The digital tool for individual FRSs would be launched towards the end of 2022.

DQ reported that over the period 2016/17 – 2018/19 the model estimated that the value of saved property due to FRS intervention was £4.45bn per annum and the value of saved lives was £5.35bn per annum. There were also significant savings from water rescue, making environments safe, clearing spills and leaks, medical assistance and extrications. For every £1 spent on the Fire and Rescue Service there was £6.17 saved. DQ finished by saying that this was an ongoing project and he looked forward to further data and improvements from services to fine tune the model.

Members’ comments and questions:

·       Had similar exercises been carried out with other public sector organisations such as the Police, and could comparisons with these reflect badly on the FRS? DQ said that although research had been done on individual parts of local government, the police and ambulance services for example, this approach across the whole fire and rescue sector was unique. He expected that other sectors would follow suit in the near future.

·       The Chair invited DQ to hold a workshop on the project at the LGA Fire Conference in March 2023. The invitation was accepted.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee noted the presentation.

Verbal update from Emily McGuinness, LGA Senior Regional Advsier

The Chair invited Emily McGuinness (EM), Senior Regional Adviser, to introduce the update.

EM reported that officers were continuing to develop an SLI offer in line with members’ priorities but that they had yet to secure funding to deliver a programme of work. Discussions had been taking place with the Home Office and further meetings were planned, with a focus on showcasing the LGA’s improvement expertise. Officers had also developed good working relationships with NFCC colleagues.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee noted the update.

The Chair invited Gill Gittins (GG) and Claire Hey (CH), Senior Advisers, to introduce the update.

GG reported that since the update report had been written, two pay consultation meetings had taken place, the outcomes from which were currently being analysed to be fed into the National Employer’s considerations.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee noted the issues set out in the paper.

The Chair invited Charles Loft (CL), Senior Adviser, to introduce the update. CL indicated that he was happy to take questions on the report.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee noted the update without discussion.

The Chair invited Susannah Hancock (SH), NFCC Chief Operating Officer, to introduce the update. SH indicated that she was happy to accept any questions from members on the report.

Members’ comments and questions:

·       Members welcomed the update and the breadth of topics covered but suggested that the key issue for the sector moving forward was finance. SH reassured members that finance was a major focus for the NFCC at present but that they also wanted to showcase the range of other work that the NFCC was currently engaged in.

·       Members asked whether contact details of lead officers could be provided in the report so that members who were interested in finding out more information could do so, for example around the on-call project mentioned in paragraph 2.35. SH agreed to look into this for future reports and said that in respect of on-call, the NFCC’s lead officer had made contact with Cllr Healey to discuss LGA involvement in the project. This could then be reported to a future FSMC meeting. DQ added that Shropshire FRS had recently held a conference to launch a research document on ‘on-call’ called ‘Sustaining Success’ which he hoped would be able to add value to the on-call community across the UK.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee noted the update.

Action:

NFCC to provide further details of on-call project at next FSMC meeting.

The Chair invited Cllr Nick Chard to introduce the update. Cllr Chard indicated that he was happy to take questions on the report.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee noted the update without discussion.

The Chair invited Rebecca Johnson (RJ), Adviser, to introduce the update.

RJ indicated that she was happy to take questions on the report.

Members’ comments and questions:

·       Progress on, and the future of, the ESMCP project was queried in the light of the recent news that Metropolitan Police Officers were to be issued with mobile phones. Cllr Carter, FSMC’s representative on the ESMCP Fire Customer Group, expressed his frustration at the limited amount of information that could be shared with colleagues due to the commercial sensitivity of much of the project detail. LE added that the whole point of the ESMCP project was to move away from the expensive Airwave infrastructure and make use of existing mobile communications facilities. It was hoped that more information could be shared at the Fire Commission meeting on 14 October when the Competition & Markets Authority had reported.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee noted the update.

The Chair invited Catriona Coyle (CC), Events Manager, to introduce the report.

CC advised members that both the Nottingham Crowne Plaza and the Bristol Marriott City Centre hotels met the criteria for holding the conference and were similar prices. She, therefore, asked members for their views on a preferred location.

Members’ comments and questions:

·       Members considered that it was very important for the financial viability of the conference that exhibitors had the best space possible. The feedback from Bristol in 2016 was that they weren’t entirely happy with the Marriott in this respect. It was therefore suggested that Nottingham be used for 2023 and then Bristol in 2024. In the meantime, to see whether Bristol could offer any improvement on their previous facilities for exhibitors.

·       Nottingham was considered to be a more central location and therefore accessible for more people.

·       The suggestion was made to ask Nottingham whether any discount would be available were the hotel to be booked two years in a row. However, there was concern about committing to two years when the hotel had not been used before for the conference. CC said she could ask them about a discount for the subsequent year on the proviso that delegates were happy with the first year. This was agreed.

·       LE asked members to send through any suggestions for possible sessions at the conference to her and RJ over the next few weeks so a draft agenda could be put together for Lead Members to discuss.

Decision:

Fire Services Management Committee agreed that the LGA Fire Conference and Exhibition should be held at the Nottingham Crowne Plaza hotel on 7-8 March 2023.

Action:

·       CC to investigate options for discounted rate for two year booking at Nottingham.

·       Members to provide suggestions for conference content to LE and RJ by mid-October.

Decision:

The confidential minutes of the meeting held on 8 July 2022 were agreed as an accurate record.