Minutes:
The Chair welcomed Jonny to the meeting and invited him to update Fire Commission on the key issues affecting the sector in the coming months.
Jonny apologised on behalf of the Minister, who had been unable to attend on this occasion.
Jonny updated Fire Commission on developments with the fire reform agenda, in particular around the Minister’s 3 key priorities of people, professionalism and governance which he had outlined at the previous Commission meeting in May. He said that whilst Covid had been extremely challenging, it had also helped to improve and develop dialogue and collaborative working which had not existed in some areas pre-pandemic.
Jonny then spoke about the Home Office’s review of the role of Police & Crime Commissioners in the context of fire governance reform. He thanked those FRA’s that had submitted evidence to the first part of the review and said that evidence gathering was now complete. A draft report on the findings was due to be submitted to the Home Secretary in October.
Finally, Jonny updated members on the Government’s Spending Review and said that the working assumption was that this would be a comprehensive 3-year review, but clearly this could be subject to change given the current fluid situation with Covid. He thanked those members who had been involved in the joint LGA/NFCC submission on fire and said he felt that this had landed well at the Home Office.
Following Jonny’s presentation, members raised the following issues:
· Nick Chard – Expressed concern about the impact of the Government’s proposed planning reforms on fire safety, particularly in relation to the extension of permitted development rights. FSMC Lead Members had written to the Minister outlining these concerns but were yet to receive a response. Jonny noted members’ concerns around this issue and promised to bring it to the Minister’s attention. He said that the Minister had introduced a joint strategic approach to fire and building safety straddling the Home Office and MHCLG which should help to resolve issues such as this.
· Michael Payne – He considered that closer working between local and central levels was crucial in the Covid response and in the wider proposed reforms to the sector. He suggested that it would make sense if the Government’s proposed local government reorganisation and associated reforms to fire governance were put on hold in the light of the Covid second wave. Jonny said that any reforms to fire governance would have to tie in with the Government’s devolution white paper and its associated timescales. He added that the PCC review was in two parts and that there wouldn’t be any changes introduced before the PCC elections in May 2021.
· Simon Coles – Would the Minister and his officials look again at the issue of revenue-raising by FRA’s through the council tax precept? 70% of properties in Somerset are below band D and are therefore not able to raise as much revenue as other areas. Jonny said that they were aware of the issue but didn’t have any clarity on possible solutions at this stage. He noted that there were likely to be substantial losses of council tax revenue as a result of Covid which would need to be addressed.
· Cleo Lake – Wanted to see greater community involvement in decision making around fire sector reforms and Covid. Jonny said that this was a big area of focus for the Home Office at present and the Windrush scandal had been a wake-up call.
· Carolyn Lambert – Unsafe cladding on buildings was still a huge issue. She quoted an example from East Sussex where a shared ownership resident was asked to pay £70k to make their home safe. What more was the Government doing to address this? Jonny said that the Minister saw this issue as a top priority and significant funding had been made available to address it.
· Carol Theobald – Agreed that the speed of cladding removal was very worrying. Echoed concerns over planning reforms.
· Roger Phillips – Expressed concern about the cost to FRA revenue budgets of the Fire Pension Scheme and additional liabilities arising from the Sargeant case. Jonny said that pensions were the single biggest issue in terms of FRA finances and the Home Office was very much aware.
· John Robinson – Agreed on the need for greater involvement of the fire service in planning. Also raised the issue of capital spending and whether there would be a longer-term capital settlement for FRAs in the Spending Review. Jonny agreed that parts of the fire service infrastructure were becoming outdated and so the availability of capital was very important.
· Kieran Amos - Thanked Jonny and the Home Office team for a swift and positive intervention at the start of the pandemic; around vital amendments to Employer Guidance (liaising with NFCC, HMRC, DWP etc) on furlough. This averted a significant risk of On-call Firefighters having to give up their Fire contracts so they could access furlough arrangements in their primary employment.
The Chair thanked Jonny for his presentation and for staying to answer members’ questions.