The Chair introduced the report and also introduced Neil O’Connor, Director for Fire Resilience and Emergencies at DCLG.  The Director highlighted that Mark Francois, Minister of State for Communities and Resilience, was keen to engage with the fire and rescue sector on the new government’s priorities but unfortunately had been unable to attend the meeting himself.

The Director thanked members for the many welcoming letters that the Minister had received since his appointment, as well as the invitations to visit individual fire and rescue authorities. He had already had discussions with members from all parties, as well as representatives of the three fire unions, including visiting the headquarters of the FBU. Meetings with the unions had been very positive. The Minister would be attending the LGA Annual Conference the following week.

The priorities for the new government were to deliver all aspects of the Conservative manifesto, which included a commitment to enable the fire and rescue service and the police to work more closer together, as well as steps on strike action. Currently no specific proposals had been put forward, but detailed consultation on any proposals would take place in due course.

The Cities and Local Government Devolution Bill was currently progressing through both Houses of Parliament, and localism was very important in the context of fire service reform. The Emergency Services Mobile Communications Programme was progressing and would roll out in 2017, which would enable the service to be more flexible and was an important factor in reform of the service. Members noted that although specific savings had not been identified there would realistically be further reductions in funding, and services would be asked to look for further efficiencies. The Director commented that he was pleased to have seen a very positive interest and enthusiasm for continued reform at the LGA Fire Conference in March. DCLG would be producing a survey for fire and rescue authorities to gauge the level of collaboration which was currently going on across the country, particularly on programmes of work such as improving health outcomes and road safety. The survey would be important in assessing the value that the service provided in these areas and in evaluating what further change might be possible. Further details would be released in due course.

LGA publications such as ‘Future Funding’ and ‘First 100 Days’ would continue to feed into discussions over the coming months, and the government was committed to explore what could be achieved. The Director highlighted that DCLG wanted to work collaboratively and collectively with the fire service, and had always had a good relationship with the Fire Commission and the LGA.

In the discussion which followed the Director’s presentation the following topics were raised:

• The Adrian Thomas report was currently with the Minister for consideration. The previous fire minister had said that the report would be published after the General Election and a timescale for this would be agreed. Members asked that the report be published in full, and that it would be appropriate to publish before Parliament’s summer recess.
• The Fire Commission unanimously agreed that there should not be a top down directive for Police and Crime Commissioners to be given oversight of the fire and rescue service. Many members highlighted that a great deal of collaboration with the police and other fire and rescue authorities was already taking place, but that reform of the service should be undertaken through a ‘bottom up’ approach rather than a ‘top down’ approach. The Director explained that the ‘bottom up’ approach was consistent with the government’s approach to devolution, and the priority was developing the manifesto commitment, with any plans developed from this work then being subject to detailed consultation.
• It was confirmed that there were no plans for further mergers, regional fire services or a national fire service. Early policy development would be to enable blue light services to work more collaboratively. One issue for  the forthcoming spending review would be demonstrating the value of the wider role the fire and rescue service could play, and whether this was something that developed locally or just in the context of police and fire.  DCLG would welcome Fire Commission views on this.
• Regarding financial support, the Fire Transformation Fund was available for fire services who wished to bring forward transformation plans, but members noted that funding for future years would be subject to the spending review which would run from July to autumn 2015.
• Members asked whether the proposals for greater collaboration between the police and fire and the changes on strikes legislation applied in Wales. It was pointed out that as the fire and rescue service was a devolved matter the proposals for greater collaboration would be a matter for Wales.
• Some members raised the issue of unfair funding settlement between rural and urban fire and rescue services.
• The Director confirmed that if the Minister agreed that the national survey of best practice should be conducted, the results would be shared nationally. Members also pointed out that collaboration programmes needed funding and the transformation funding had assisted this.
• The fire and rescue service had a trusted brand image which could be damaged if services were joined with the police. It was easier for a firefighter to engage with residents in their own homes than a police officer, which enabled the service to expand the role of improving health outcomes and public safety.
• Regarding national resilience, the Director confirmed that a review of capabilities was being undertaken by the Strategic Resilience Board. The issue would also be considered as part of the spending review, but there would be no fundamental review of national resilience at this stage.
• It was reported that firefighters were having difficulty understanding the impact of pension reform.  A request was therefore made for DCLG to improve communication on this programme.

The Chair thanked the Director for attending the meeting, and looked forward to the Minister for Communities and Resilience attending a future meeting of the Fire Commission.

Decision

• Members noted the report and the comments of the Director for Fire Resilience and Emergencies.
• Members agreed that, while supporting closer cooperation between the emergency services, the fire and rescue service should not directed from above to come under the responsibility of Police and Crime Commissioners.

Actions

Officers to update the Commission on matters raised during the discussion at a future meeting.