Agenda item

The Chair introduced the Minister of State for Policing and the Fire Service, Nick Hurd MP, who was appointed to this role on 12 June 2017.

The Minister thanked the LGA for the invitation to speak at the Fire Commission meeting, stating that this was a valuable opportunity to have a conversation with members and acknowledging that this was a challenging role. The Minister emphasised the need to work together in the coming weeks, months and years ahead following the tragic events at Grenfell Tower. He said that there was a demand for change following the fire and that there were many lessons to be learnt. The Minister felt that we did not need to wait for the public inquiry before enacting change and he called on local government to come forward to help inform a proportionate response in terms of regulation and compliance with regulation.

The Minister praised the outstanding response by the emergency services to the Grenfell Tower fire and said that the service should be proud of their response, as well as the number of lives which were saved. He noted that the fire service had the trust and respect of the public, but that there was a need to continually challenge the service to improve, and to recruit and retain the best work force.

On issues aside from Grenfell Tower, the Minister stated that the fire service had made substantial progress in recent months and that he had been impressed with how the National Fire Chief’s Council under Chair Roy Wilsher’s leadership had worked to support the reform agenda. The Minister provided an update on the reform agenda, referring specifically to three areas: accountability and transparency, efficiency and workforce reform.

On accountability, the Minister suggested that an announcement on a future inspectorate would be made imminently. He said that while inspection can be uncomfortable, it was a necessary means to challenge the fire service to get better. On legislation for different governance arrangements and the decision to allow Police and Crime Commissioners (PCCs) to take on responsibility for fire and rescue in their area, the Minister said that authorities could have the argument about accountability but not obstruct the process. He said that it would need to be a locally led decision effectively, because it was for local areas to determine the best governance for them.

In terms of efficiency and collaboration, the Minister said that there were effective existing examples of collaboration between fire and rescue services and police forces, and he would like to see more of this. He said that there was an opportunity for more efficient procurement and he suggested that goods data would continue to be published to ensure that public money was spent smartly. On workforce reform, the Minister confirmed that the Home Office was undertaking a review of the national framework and that the LGA was a member of the core working group looking at this. He said that views would be sought to ensure that the new framework meets everyone’s needs.

The Minister concluded by saying that he was keen to find common ground cross-party and that the Government remained committed to work with partners to enable and embed the kind of change that is needed to underpin a culture of continuous improvement.

In response to the Minister’s speech, members made the following comments:

·         Members paid tribute to the fire services involved in responding to the Grenfell Tower fire and said that it was clear that current regulations were not fit for purpose. A suggestion was made that while fire services were put in control of fire safety inspections across all high rise blocks, they should also control fire safety inspections in homes of multiple occupation (HMOs), care homes, hospitals and schools. It was noted, however, that fire services do not have the resources or capacity to take this level of responsibility without additional support from central government. Further clarity was needed about where power and responsibility lies in terms of building control and inspection, and a point was made about the need to talk to those involved to get a sense of what they have experienced first-hand.

·         It was accepted that change needs to occur but many members raised concerns about wider funding issues, stating that fire services used to have more money for emergency planning but that this money had been reduced. Members said that more resources were needed to improve fire services and safety, and money needed to be used effectively. The Minister agreed with the need for effective emergency planning and noted that the Prime Minister had earlier made clear the need to review emergency response strategies in terms of capacity and capability.

·         Members made a number of comments about fire fighter pay and made it clear to the Minister that they were calling for pay rises to be funded by new money rather than through cuts to existing services. The Minister accepted that firefighters need to be paid a fair wage but he said that public finances continue to be constrained so any decision on pay needed to be sustainable. Active negotiations on pay were still underway. A discussion was had about the role of the firefighter and the Minister said that he was enthusiastic about the expanded role of firefighters and the ability to do a broader range of work, while also stating that the service should not lose sight of their primary role.

·         The Minister said that one aspect of the review of the fire service would look at whether it was clear enough where accountability lies, whether the rules were clear enough and what happens when they are not complied with.

·         Members called on the Minister to support a drive for sprinklers in buildings. Members were clear that this was not a panacea and that other fire suppression measures need to be used in conjunction with sprinklers but that good regulations and sprinkler systems go a long way to promote public safety. It was suggested that the cost of sprinklers did not outweigh the benefits of having them and that we stood to risk more lives by not ensuring that homes, schools, offices and hospitals had them fitted either when new ones were built, or retrospectively. The Minister agreed that sprinklers were not a catch-all solution but that a conversation needed to be had about whether any progress was made since the Government wrote to all authorities in 2013 asking them to consider a coroner’s recommendation to retrofit sprinkler systems wherever possible.

·         The response of volunteers to the Grenfell Tower fire was praised but it was noted that the response was somewhat overwhelming and unorganised. A conversation was had about the need for volunteers and public protection partners to work together to ensure their response to incidents was coordinated and effective.

Decision

The Fire Commission noted the Minister’s speech.