Agenda item

The Chair introduced Dany Cotton, the London Fire Brigade Commissioner, and Phil Loach, Vice Chair of the National Fire Chiefs Council (NFCC), and noted that efforts were being made to hold a joint meeting between the lead members of the Fire Services Management Committee, Safer and Stronger Communities and Environment, Economy, Housing and Transport boards, as well as the NFCC to discuss fire suppression methods following Grenfell.

Dany Cotton spoke to members about her involvement in the Grenfell Tower fire and noted that many of the firefighters who responded had never witnessed previous incidents of this scale, complexity and horror. She gave thanks to all who had supported the London Fire Brigade following these events and she acknowledged that the long-term psychological impact on the firefighters involved would be significant.

The Commissioner outlined some of the challenges the fire crews faced as events were unfolding, including the number of residents still inside the building, the complexity of receiving so many emergency calls from people both inside and outside the building, the reaction of the public in the local area and concerns about the structure of the building. It was suggested that this would have a considerable impact on London and that fire services were battling continuously with carrying out fire safety inspections and reassuring the public.

The Commissioner noted that local authorities had been quick to fix some problems but she was concerned about a knee jerk response to remove cladding from buildings as it can be perfectly safe on many buildings. She said that more needed to be done about fire prevention inside buildings but that the coordinated response so far had been helpful. There had been some frustration, however, over stories reported in the media which could not be responded to as events would be subject to a public inquiry. The Commissioner noted that a number of unfair comments had been made which harm the fire service but they could not be challenged in the circumstances. The Commissioner was clear that the important thing was to stay united in order to provide a consistent response to such reports.

The Vice Chair of the NFCC, Phil Loach, echoed members’ praise for Dany Cotton and wanted his thanks recorded. He said that the NFCC had provided support in engaging with government departments in the wake of the fire and he noted that a key aspect of this had been dealing with local authorities carrying out safety inspections. Mr Loach said that this work had been underpinned by the Chair, Roy Wilsher’s, leadership but also supported by contemporary expertise within the NFCC. He said that Chief Fire Officers and technical experts had underpinned the support effort.

Following these statements, members made the following comments:

·         Members gave praise to the role the Commissioner, her firefighters and support staff had following the fire, and made clear that we should recognise the risks they take in the name of public safety.

·         It was agreed that improvements needed to be made and that a clear commitment from both the LGA and the NFCC that they would work together to make unified calls on the Government would be welcome. Members felt that this was a time to listen to professional advice on how to improve and to ensure that change comes from the bottom up rather than having it imposed from the top down.

·         On sprinklers, members asked whether they should be compulsory in high rise buildings and whether having any additional equipment could have helped tackle the blaze at Grenfell Tower. Members noted that the National Fire Sprinklers Association and the NFCC had already released a joint statement on their use and had already collated evidence about their benefits. The Chair told members that the LGA Chairman, Lord Porter, had recently said that this would be one of the biggest issues for the LGA, and that we would need to look at local government’s capacity to deal with major incidents.

·         A member suggested that there was an opportunity through the planning system to ensure that the last word on community protection should be with the fire service. It was suggested that the planning system has advantage over the building inspectorate because it is a transparent process. Consideration was given to the possibility of making it compulsory to seek advice or views from the fire service before a planning application can be approved. Concerns were raised in response to this comment about capacity and resources. If this was approved, fire services would need additional members of staff and it was noted that attracting trained engineers to the fire service could be very difficult.

·         Members asked the Commissioner for her views on the use of equipment from neighbouring authorities and whether there were any contingency plans in place for services to request support from them. The Commissioner said that there had been conversations about establishing a register of assets so that services were aware of what neighbouring authorities in the way of equipment. She said that the cost of equipment means authorities would not be able to have their own stock of all equipment so there was a clear need to share equipment where possible. In terms of specialist skills, the Commissioner said there was a need to look at ongoing training requirements and ensuring that where authorities have specialist skills and assets, they should share.

·         Members said that having the Minister there to speak was helpful and that a further meeting should be arranged to discuss this issue for a longer amount of time. The Chair reminded members that attempts were being made to arrange a joint meeting between the FSMC, SSCB and EEHT lead members and that discussions would be had about the possibility of additional meetings in the future.

Decision

Fire Commission members noted the reports given by Dany Cotton and Phil Loach.

Action

Officers to arrange joint meeting with other boards’ lead members.