Agenda and minutes

The Chair opened the meeting and listed apologies.

It was noted that the Labour Group was missing a substitute member of the Committee.

The Chair thanked Cllr Kay Hammond for serving as Deputy Chairman of the Committee last year (as she had now stood down) and said he would write to her on behalf of the Committee.

There were no declarations of interest.

Action

MSO to look into missing substitute on the Labour Group.

Mark Norris, Principal Policy Adviser, introduced the item, asking members to note the Membership of the Board, the Terms of Reference and information on appointments to outside bodies. He advised members that an additional outside body had been included for the 2016/2017 cycle – Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC).

It was noted that the dates in appendix B needed to be amended to say 2016/2017.

Members were informed that all future meetings of the committee would be in Layden House in Farringdon, as the LGA would be moving to this building whilst Local Government House was refurbished. 

The following appointments were made to outside bodies:

Cross Emergency Services Group: Cllr David Acton, Cllr Nick Chard

National Occupational Committee: Cllr Michelle Hodgson

CFOA, RDS and Operational Training Working Group: Cllr Simon Spencer

Joint Emergency Services Interoperability Programme Board: Cllr Mark Healey

Emergency Services Mobile Communication Programme (ESMCP) Customer Group: Cllr Philip Howson

Fire Service College Engagement Forum: Cllr Mark Healey, Cllr John Edwards

Strategic Resilience Board: Cllr Les Byrom, Cllr Jeremy Hilton

Arson Prevention Forum: Cllr Fiona Twycross

CFOA Fire Futures Forum – Waste Management: Cllr Darrell Pulk

Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC) External Reference Group (ERG): Cllr Rebecca Knox, Cllr Jeremy Hilton, Cllr David Acton

Members discussed whether the new Pensions Scheme Advisory Board (run by the Home Office) should be included as an outside body, and noted it was covered in the Workforce report later in the agenda.

It was agreed that in future the papers should also list the membership of the Scheme Advisory Board and that of the National Joint Council, and that FSMC should be notified of the appointments to both these bodies.

Decision

The appointments to outside bodies were agreed, and a list of the membership of the Scheme Advisory Board and National Joint Council to be circulated to FSMC. 

Action

Membership lists of the Scheme Advisory Board and National Joint Council to be circulated to Members as agreed.

Mark Norris, Principal Policy Adviser, introduced the item. The paper looked in detail at what the effect of the EU Exit for Fire and Rescue Authorities would be, considering investment issues, changes to the law, the impact on community cohesion and economic and skills development. He advised members that each board/committee would be looking at the implications in their area.

He asked members if there were any concerns that needed to be fed into government discussions, and whether, based on the work priorities over the last year, anything needed to be added to work going forward.

In the discussion which followed, members made the following points:

·         Work not covered in the report (such as RDS reforms and procurement) should be added. It was suggested that members should have input into a set of work priorities where progress could be measured.

·         Business Rates Retention was discussed and concern over the future funding formula.

·         Members felt that procurement could be included in the report as a priority issue. Fire Authorities could look at what could be done collectively on this to make savings.

·         Co-responding trails and retained duty system should also be included in the report.

·         Members suggested that when considering issues related to RDS the recent Kent report needed to be considered.

·         Collaborative work and future opportunities for collaborative work should be included in FSMC’s work. 

Decision

The Committee agreed the work priorities, subject to the points made above.

The Chair introduced Ann Millington, CFOA Director (People and Organisational Development) and Chief Executive of Kent Fire and Rescue Service.

She advised members that CFOA were developing plans to improve procurement methods across the sector. In some areas of procurement considerable savings could be realised. The CFOA work was therefore looking at six procurement categories, with each area having a lead. CFOA would also be creating a virtual procurement team, which would then be able to negotiate on behalf of FRAs. This work would also link to the Research and Development Hub, as research and development currently had high process costs, and these could be reduced through the sector testing new equipment once rather than 45 times.  

Members had an important role in acting as advocates for collaboration and better procurement, with the Home Office keen to see results in two to three years. The changed procurement process would allow individual FRAs to realign their resources. There also needed to be better communication with frontline firefighters on why improving procurement was important. The Home Office regarded progress on this issue as emblematic of the effectiveness of the service.

In the discussion which followed, members made the following points:

·         Members supported the initiative and asked how many Fire Services were currently supporting it. Around 25-30 fire services were currently supporting this work.

·         Members asked if the Fire Services College was still being considered as a single test point for new equipment. There were issues with paying a private sector body to provide this service, when it had its own commercial interests, and having the sector work on this would expand its commercial knowledge.

·         Members asked what the impact of the publication of the costs paid by FRAs for a common basket of 25 items had been. Some had thought it unhelpful, but it also offered a useful opportunity to see what the sector was paying and how it could reduce costs, and work was underway to better understand the costs paid by FRAs. . if there were any procurement items in addition to those listed and were advised that a tool called Bravo would be open to all authorities to list procurement areas.

·         It was suggested that an item should be placed on the agenda of Fire Commission and a session on procurement should be organised at the Fire Conference to highlight the potential savings in this area to others.

Decision

Members agreed that the LGA should support CFOA and promote the initiatives outlined in the report.

Action

Officers to look at putting this item on the agenda for Fire Commission and arranging a session on this initiative at the next Fire Conference.

Charles Loft, Senior Adviser, introduced the report, updating members on the changes to CFOA’s governance and operating procedures and asking members for a steer on the principals to be used to guide the discussions with CFOA going forward (set out in paragraph 11).

In the discussion which followed, members made the following points:

·         Members asked whether services would be responsible for additional payments to CFOA as a result of the changes.

·         It was suggested that a meeting between the committee’s lead members and the CFOA presidential team and the chair of the National Fire Chiefs Council (once elected) should be set up as soon as possible, and future dates put in the diary. It was suggested that the Chair of CFOA should be invited to attend FSMC meetings.

·         There was concern about point 11.3 and it was suggested that the word commission needed to be reviewed and replaced.

Decision

It was agreed that lead members of the committee would take the discussion forward with CFOA.

Actions

1.    A meeting between the CFOA presidential team and committee lead members to be set up.

2.    The word ‘commission’ in point 11.3 to be reviewed.

The Chair introduced the report, advising members that the Scheme Advisory Board budget had now been agreed by the Minister. The objective of this was to look at cost saving for Fire Authorities. He advised that the regulations to introduce a contributions holiday for employees would come into force on 30 September.

Gill Gittins, Principal Negotiating Officer, advised members that the Inclusive Fire Service Group would be going ahead. However, following advice from the QC, the Employment Tribunal Scheme would be delayed until January. 

The following points were made:

·         Members asked when the National Joint Council (NJC) would meet. Members were advised that the next meeting would be in February. Officers would circulate the name of Chair of the Council when the appointed was confirmed.

·         It was agreed that all dates for NJC meetings and NJC representatives would be emailed to members.

Decision

The committee noted the issues set out in the paper.

Action

Members to be advised of the appointment of the Chair of the NJC, and dates of NJC meetings and NJC representatives would be circulated.

The Chair introduced the item. The following points were made:

·         It was suggested that Brandon Lewis MP, Minister of State for Policing and the Fire Service, should be invited to the next Fire Conference and it was discussed whether the Shadow Fire Minister should be asked to attend. Other suggestions for sessions included procurement, co-responding and RDS. It was agreed that members would send any comments/suggestion for the conference to Lucy Ellender (Adviser).

·         Members asked for an update on the Police and Crime Commissioners Model Business Case. It was agreed that officers would chase this document.

·         Members asked if a committee lead member could have input into the APACE FRS working group. It was agreed that Cllr Rebecca Knox would sit in on the phone conference for the group the following week.

·         It was requested that lead members were invited when the Chair had ministerial discussions.

·         It was suggested that a cross party letter expressing disappointment on the decision on sprinkler systems should be written to Heather Wheeler MP (who had responsibility on this issue).

·         Members agreed that any Home Office response to the reduction in size of the Hampshire FRA should not limit the options of other FRAs.

Decision

It was agreed that officers would proceed with work in line with members’ steers.

Action

Officers to chase the Police and Crime Commissioners Model Business Case.

Members of outside bodies updated the committee on meetings they had attended.

Cllr Simon Spencer advised members that the last meeting of CFOA, RDS and Operational Training Working Group had looked at recruitment and retention problems as well as the equalities agenda. A paper on the meeting would be circulated.

Decision

Members noted the update.

Decision

The committee agreed the notes of the last meeting as an accurate summary of the discussion.